1 John Howard said...

Skip Bayless' entire career is built around him being a moron.

Posted on July 03, 2005 at 10:30 PM

2 Matt said...

The only thing that hurts him is that he played most of his career on two bad teams (most of the time). Baltimore and Texas...

He was a decent 1B and yes his stats are good, but would not surprise me if here were not a first ballot guy.

Posted on July 04, 2005 at 09:48 PM

3 Matt said...

oh, by the way Skip Bayless will be hosting Jim Rome radio show Friday... just in case you want to listen in.

Posted on July 06, 2005 at 06:05 PM

4 John Howard said...

I can't stand it when Skip hosts Jim Rome, because all he does is try to bait the OSU fans.

I never understood this first ballot nonesense. If someone deserves to be in, they deserve to be in. No one is going to improve any in between the first ballot and whatever ballot they finally get in on.

Posted on July 07, 2005 at 07:31 PM

5 Seth said...

I think if Palmeiro were white or black or simply charismatic Bayless wouldn't get away with this kind of claptrap. I honestly think that he's hispanic, English isn't his first language, and that he's somewhat shy, all play into his, if you will, relative invisibility--his lack of regiswter on the cultural screen. I mean, come on, by the time he retires Raffy will probably be #5 on the all-time homerun list and this Bayless clown really believes he doesn't belong in the hall? He's just a talking head paid to give people something to talk about. Unfortunately some people can pull it off without being a jerk and he's not one of them.

Posted on July 16, 2005 at 12:26 PM

6 Dave said...

How anyone can say Palmeiro isn't a First Ballot Hall of Famer with a straight face is beyond me. Hits for average and power. Even though he plays a lot at DH, he also has played a LOT at first base, with three Gold Gloves too (though one undeserved). He now has 3000 hits! THAT alone should do it. He has 567 home runs to go along with that and 1800 RBIs and counting. Eddie Murray got in on the first ballot, and his best season ever had him hitting 33 home runs. Palmeiro AVERAGED 33 home runs for 15 years! He hit 47 in a season twice. He is one of the most consistently great players in the history of the game. 3000 hits and 567 home runs and someone thinks he's not a hall of famer? Holy Crap that is idiocy!

Posted on July 19, 2005 at 08:54 AM

7 Scott Baxter said...

The problem of Bayless's argument from the ESPN article is that he says that Palmiero is just "very good" and Nolan Ryan is a "lock". Now I will be crusified for this, but I believe that Nolan Ryan is one of the most overrated players ever.

And before you call me a moron and bring up the no-hitters and strikeout record, look at Ryan's stats:

324 wins, 292 LOSSES - Folks, he is only 32 games over .500. Now, Ryan has a worse winning percentage than Bert Blyleven (287-250) and Tommy John (288-231), both of whom are NOT in the Hall of Fame. Plus, he has a worse winning percentage than Don Sutton. It begs the question, if he did not win 300 games, or if Ryan had the same record as John or Blyleven, would Ryan be in the Hall?

Of those 324 victories, Ryan had only two 20 win seasons (22-16 in '73 and 21-16 in '74), just one more than Sutton, and both had two 19 win seasons.

Ryan had 5714 K's, but WALKED 2795 batters!!! (That is just barely above 2/1 K/BB ratio) That is an average of 103 walks a year for his 27 year career, and that is when you factor his stats while with the Mets, and his injury plagued last two years with the Rangers. At one point, he walked over 100 batters 9 years in a row, and 11 out of 13 years (would have been 12 of 13 if it weren't for the '81 strike). Two of those years, he walked over 200 batters. Had he been a pitcher during his tenure with the Angels instead of a glorified thrower, either striking out or walking a hitter, his winning percentage and ERA would have been much, much better.

Factor in that Ryan has never really been a factor in Cy Young voting in either league also adds to my argument.

The point is that Bayless is talking out of both sides of his mouth here. How can you say that one player is very good because he compiled very good stats for a number of years, and another is an immortal lock even though the stats says somewhat otherwise. Do I believe that both Ryan and Palmiero are Hall worthy, absolutely, but his argument falls apart with Ryan being a "lock".

...And, don't get me started on the Ryne Sandberg being only "very good".

Posted on July 19, 2005 at 10:06 AM

8 Brett said...

While Palmeiro's raw numbers are impressive and no one can dispute that. . . it's easy to overlook that he has hit in hitter's ballparks his entire career, has played average defense with 2 above average seasons in 20 tries, has benefitted from doing the bulk of his hitting in the best hitter's era since the early 30s and has played the least physically demanding position out there. There are so many first baseman with numbers that approach his, you have to look at it from that perspective as well. Palmeiro has never won anything, which won't help either. Does someone really think of Harold Baines as a Hall-of-Famer?

Posted on July 19, 2005 at 03:49 PM

9 Brett said...

Agreed! Ryan is way overrated. That is another problem with the hall of fame. Should guys be in based on their own numbers standing alone or should they be in based on how they compare with their comtemporaries? While Ryan is overrated, I also think that he's a HOFer for certain. 7 no-hitters, all-time K king, he chose not to be polished, he wasn't afraid to walk people, so you don't eliminate him because of that.

Posted on July 19, 2005 at 04:02 PM

11 Yessir said...

In light of Palmeiro's recent steroid use bust, he no longer deserves to be in the Hall of Fame; however, the sad truth is, he will probably make it in over a guy like Pete Rose. MLB's message - go ahead and juice up. If you get caught, you will still get into the Hall of Fame, but don't dare bet on baseball. Betting on baseball is a more serious offense than artificially padding stats and breaking records? Hmmmmm.

Posted on August 03, 2005 at 08:39 AM

12 Willie Bee said...

Ryan may have been just 32 games above .500, but how many games below .500 was Ernie Banks while playing for the Cubs?

Wins are a team stat, period.

Posted on April 27, 2006 at 11:03 AM

13 Spicoli said...

Palmiero should not be abducted in to the hall of fame, because he is a big dumb steriod freak!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ohh yeah there's another Drug teamer for ya.

Posted on July 08, 2006 at 06:05 PM